NPR’s Juana Summers talks new memoir with singer-songwriter Lucinda Williams Don’t tell anyone the secret I told you.
Juana Summers, host:
When singer-songwriter Lucinda Williams was about to sign to a major record label, her iconic farewell song “Changed the Rocks” was rejected by Los Angeles record executives for being too rural for rock.
(Soundbite for Lucinda Williams’ song “Change the Rocks”)
Summers: Then the Nashville executives passed on the song and Williams because, as they said, it was too rocky for country.
(sound bite for the song “Changed the Rocks”)
Lucinda Williams: (singing) I changed the lock on the front door so you can’t see me anymore.
Summers: This exchange illustrates the challenges Williams faced early in his career. Her music defies categorization. Ultimately, it didn’t matter what music Williams made. Rough Trade Records signed the artist, and “Changed the Rocks” became part of Williams’ first major commercial record. I had more albums. It received critical acclaim and won three Grammy Awards. And now, at 70, Williams still writes and performs, even though she suffered a stroke in 2020. Lucinda Williams has also written her memoir and she is with me now to talk about it. Welcome to all things considered.
Williams: Thank you. i love your show I listen to it all the time.
Summers: Thank you for being here. Lucinda, I’d like to ask you about the first page of your book, which is the list of places you’ve lived. If you count correctly, you’ll have 15 places by the age of 20. Why are you moving around so much?
Williams: Well, my father was a college professor, so I was a scholar kid. My father said that at one university he taught for a year or two and then moved to another.
Summers: So that experience of moving around is reflected in your music. There’s a scene in the book where you talk about the first time your father heard you play the song “Car Wheels On A Gravel Road.”
(Soundbite for the song “Car Wheels on a Gravel Road”)
Williams: (singing) Macon’s house, sitting in the kitchen. Loretta is singing on the radio.
Summers: Can you tell us a little bit about the song and what that moment meant to you?
Williams: Oh. That song is — you have to imagine life through the eyes of a child, getting ready to go somewhere, finding your keys, trying to pack your suitcase and everything else, sitting in the back seat to the voice of the child in the front seat listening to it.
(Soundbite for the song “Car Wheels on a Gravel Road”)
Williams: (singing) Telephone poles, trees and wires are driven down the gravel road by car wheels.
I was playing at the Bluebird in Nashville and my dad was in the audience. And I played the song, and he heard it for the first time. I went backstage afterwards and he said he was very sorry. So I said, “Dad, what do you mean?” And until that moment I didn’t realize I was writing about myself and that he was aware of it. So it was kind of a bittersweet moment.
(Soundbite to the Lucinda Williams song “A Wheel of a Car on a Gravel Road”)
Summers: As someone who loves to write, I loved the way you described your writing process in this book and the idea of you carrying this suitcase full of references, notes, and bits of ideas. It can be operated immediately at any time and can be incorporated into the song immediately. Do you still carry around such a briefcase?
Williams: Oh. Well, I’m at home now. I had a lot of notes and miscellaneous papers with lines and such, so I ended up creating these files for each song. Then you can retrieve the specific song files you want to work on further. . It’s just easier to access everything. i like paper and pen
Summers: Can you give me an example of one of the notes that might be there?
Williams: Well, it may be a song I started and not finished yet. As you know, I’ve been working on songs off and on for several years. Like “Drunken Angel,” it took a long time.
(Sound bite for the song “DRUNKEN ANGEL”)
Williams: (singing) The sun is coming up. Another day the sun went down. you were shocked.
Summers: What took you so long?
Williams: So I was trying to describe this particular person. And importantly, as a writer, I have to be compassionate when I write about someone who has a drinking problem, is self-defeating, or is like that. And I have to put a part of myself in there. I don’t want to sound critical. It takes a lot of thought and a lot of effort to make it happen.
(Sound bite for the song “DRUNKEN ANGEL”)
Williams: (singing) Drunk angel, you’re on the other side. Drunk angel, you’re on the other side.
Summers: Like I said, you had a stroke a few years ago. I want to ask you, how are you doing? How is your recovery going?
Williams: Well, I said to someone the other day, what is recovery? [expletive]. sorry. There was – can you say those words on air?
Summers: You know, it can beep.
Williams: Okay. As you know, I’ve been through a lot of rehab and physical therapy. I couldn’t even walk at first, so I think that’s why I was able to get back on my feet quickly. If I literally tried to walk across the room, I would lose my balance and fall. I had to practice with a cane, but they lent me a walker. And, you know, I was in a wheelchair for a short time. But I learned to walk. I didn’t want to depend on it, so I learned it right away. So I got out of my wheelchair. I got off my cane. And I’m walking slowly, but you know, it’s not like it used to be.
Summers: Has recovery changed the way you make music?
Williams: Well, I can’t play guitar and that really bothered me. I hope it will come back as well as my walking. But I’m still doing it. I still write songs and play with bands. I just don’t play, but they back me up. And I sing, and my voice is still fine. it is not affected. I found myself writing a lot in my head.
Summers: So you’ve had an incredible career and made a lot of very beautiful music. What do you think will happen next?
Williams: Well, like I said earlier, I want to be able to play guitar again like I used to. In other words, I want to return to my pre-stroke self. I don’t know if it will come true, but that’s what I’d like to see. I don’t know what to do – nobody knows what the future holds.
(Soundbite for Lucinda Williams’ song “The Man Without a Soul”)
Summers: Lucinda Williams. Her memoir, Don’t Tell Anybody The Secrets I Told You, is out now. Thank you, Lucinda, for speaking with us today.
Williams: Thank you for welcoming me.
(Sound bite for the song “Man Without a Soul”)
Williams: (singing) You are a man without truth, a man of greed, a man of hate, a man of envy and suspicion. You are a soulless man. money in the world…
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